Opinions on ITT 160 please

Discussion about ITT Night Vision Products

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Opinions on ITT 160 please

Postby truthseekers » Sun Oct 10, 2010 12:56 pm

I would appreciate opinions on ITT 160 units. I have heard from this forum that reviews that this is a 64lp/mm are often wrong and it is more likely to be 40lp/mm as. Can anyone confirm that they agree with this point of veiw.

I understand also that the unit is considered to be 3500 gain, can anyone confirm this. I would want to be using the unit in countryside conditions with no street lights. Would this unit be sufficient for that use with no IR used.

How would the 160 compare against say the ITT 6150 units?

Any opinions appreciated.
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Re: Opinions on ITT 160 please

Postby Dino1130 » Sun Oct 10, 2010 5:11 pm

They are a decent viewer. Not one has ever performed to 64 lp/mm that I know about. They are all about 45 lp/mm res. They are roughly Omni lll performance.

Ok for a entry level Gen 3 viewer. Not great but they work pretty good. The housing is not versatile but if all you want is a viewer they work pretty good. Used gear has risks you need to be aware of. Do your homework. This model has issues with the power supply and wiring from time to time. Get a inspection period to make sure all is well.
I said I never had much use for one. Never said I didn’t know how to use it.
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Re: Opinions on ITT 160 please

Postby truthseekers » Tue Oct 12, 2010 7:40 am

I went to see unit and I purchased it and it seems very nice... I can see without need for IR illuminator and its clear image... YAY.... It came with 3 lenses which would have been quite expensive.

However theres one wierd thing which I can certainly put up with but I wondered if anyone knew of this effect i am getting and wondered if there was a term for it... When in very low light only around the edges of the unti there is a counter clockwise swirling noise pattern. It isnt horrible but once you have noticed its there you have to make yourself ignore it and look through it which is easy to do. Is there a name for this type of anti-clockwise noise. Should I post this on to a seperate thread?
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Re: Opinions on ITT 160 please

Postby marc_pril » Tue Oct 12, 2010 10:30 am

What I have found with noise is your brain starts to make patterns. And those are always about the same.
Could very well be you see them as swirling noise.

This however is pure speculation as I have not looked through the device!

Cheers,

Marc
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Re: Opinions on ITT 160 please

Postby Stanley » Tue Oct 12, 2010 2:44 pm

truthseekers wrote:I went to see unit and I purchased it and it seems very nice... I can see without need for IR illuminator and its clear image... YAY.... It came with 3 lenses which would have been quite expensive.

However theres one wierd thing which I can certainly put up with but I wondered if anyone knew of this effect i am getting and wondered if there was a term for it... When in very low light only around the edges of the unti there is a counter clockwise swirling noise pattern. It isnt horrible but once you have noticed its there you have to make yourself ignore it and look through it which is easy to do. Is there a name for this type of anti-clockwise noise. Should I post this on to a seperate thread?


The "anti-clockwise noise" your witnessing is due high curvature of the polycabonate output window used on these tubes, yes polycarbonate output, not glass or fiber optics. This high curvature induces image distortion which is not corrected by the inverting lens assembly or ocular. Also, the only glass used on these units is objective and pc window. It could be corrected by changing the optical design but not a defect per say, limited to your unit. What you've described is perfectly normal for these units.
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Re: Opinions on ITT 160 please

Postby efahrenholz » Tue Oct 12, 2010 10:08 pm

So wait, you said it was polycarbonate output side--would that affect the light delivery to the eye substantially?
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Re: Opinions on ITT 160 please

Postby saturnsc2 » Fri Oct 15, 2010 10:16 am

Stanley wrote:
truthseekers wrote:I went to see unit and I purchased it and it seems very nice... I can see without need for IR illuminator and its clear image... YAY.... It came with 3 lenses which would have been quite expensive.

However theres one wierd thing which I can certainly put up with but I wondered if anyone knew of this effect i am getting and wondered if there was a term for it... When in very low light only around the edges of the unti there is a counter clockwise swirling noise pattern. It isnt horrible but once you have noticed its there you have to make yourself ignore it and look through it which is easy to do. Is there a name for this type of anti-clockwise noise. Should I post this on to a seperate thread?


The "anti-clockwise noise" your witnessing is due high curvature of the polycabonate output window used on these tubes, yes polycarbonate output, not glass or fiber optics. This high curvature induces image distortion which is not corrected by the inverting lens assembly or ocular. Also, the only glass used on these units is objective and pc window. It could be corrected by changing the optical design but not a defect per say, limited to your unit. What you've described is perfectly normal for these units.
i owned several 160's & also the 260's & i never seen anything like he described. the only thing i see is noise in very low light places, but they all do this. maybe his unit has a problem? i was told the polycarbonate lenses used in these models are high quality & in some ways even better than glass...
Last edited by saturnsc2 on Fri Oct 15, 2010 10:29 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Opinions on ITT 160 please

Postby saturnsc2 » Fri Oct 15, 2010 10:20 am

in regards to the resolution of these units no matter where i read them they all say 64lp/mm. i once had a 160 & also a night optics d-300 gen 3 with the military spec version, & they both performed very similer with the d-300 being a slight bit brighter & clearer, but not a big enough of difference to make me not want to purchase a 160. a very very slight difference, so i bet the 44lp/mm spec is really the correct one for the 160 as they also are the older units....
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Re: Opinions on ITT 160 please

Postby saturnsc2 » Fri Oct 15, 2010 10:24 am

truthseekers wrote:I would appreciate opinions on ITT 160 units. I have heard from this forum that reviews that this is a 64lp/mm are often wrong and it is more likely to be 40lp/mm as. Can anyone confirm that they agree with this point of veiw.

I understand also that the unit is considered to be 3500 gain, can anyone confirm this. I would want to be using the unit in countryside conditions with no street lights. Would this unit be sufficient for that use with no IR used.

How would the 160 compare against say the ITT 6150 units?

Any opinions appreciated.

the specs with my 160 say 50.000x gain while gen 2 is around 20.000x & gen 1 like 1000x there's nothing i can't see outside even in the very of darkest places with the 160. the gen 3 tube is extremly powerful. gen 1 produces no image & gen 2 is borderline in some very dark places. that's where ya want to use this unit in dark places. under streetlights the tube actually shuts down somewhat & is not even using full power because of the brighter environment...
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Re: Opinions on ITT 160 please

Postby saturnsc2 » Fri Oct 15, 2010 12:18 pm

actually i'm looking for a mint 160 again. one just sold on ebay for $550 a mint gen 3 night mariner model. i almost had a heart attack when the sob sold right under my nose before i can hit the buy it now key. boy did that seller get reamed! i even contacted him to rub it in! hell i would have paid up to $1.000 for one like that! it had all lens caps, & original case & manual! some people just don't know the value of what their selling! if they know how to use ebay the right way the item sells it's self for what it's worth...

although the scope looked like new it doesn't mean it wasn't exposed to bright light & the intensifer on the verge of burning out. used ya never know. at least i'm telling myself this to make me feel better for letting it slip away!
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Re: Opinions on ITT 160 please

Postby Stanley » Fri Oct 15, 2010 4:43 pm

truthseekers wrote:I went to see unit and I purchased it and it seems very nice... I can see without need for IR illuminator and its clear image... YAY.... It came with 3 lenses which would have been quite expensive.

However theres one wierd thing which I can certainly put up with but I wondered if anyone knew of this effect i am getting and wondered if there was a term for it... When in very low light only around the edges of the unti there is a counter clockwise swirling noise pattern. It isnt horrible but once you have noticed its there you have to make yourself ignore it and look through it which is easy to do. Is there a name for this type of anti-clockwise noise. Should I post this on to a seperate thread?


Stanley wrote:The "anti-clockwise noise" your witnessing is due high curvature of the polycabonate output window used on these tubes, yes polycarbonate output, not glass or fiber optics. This high curvature induces image distortion which is not corrected by the inverting lens assembly or ocular. Also, the only glass used on these units is objective and pc window. It could be corrected by changing the optical design but not a defect per say, limited to your unit. What you've described is perfectly normal for these units.


saturnsc2 wrote:i owned several 160's & also the 260's & i never seen anything like he described. the only thing i see is noise in very low light places, but they all do this. maybe his unit has a problem? i was told the polycarbonate lenses used in these models are high quality & in some ways even better than glass...


The distortion has nothing to do with the relay lens assembly nor the ocular. The distortion is a result of the design of the convex output window on the tube itself. I don't see a problem with the polycarbonate lenses, they work quite well, even the PVS-7B oculars use it. It's great the none of your units ever exhibited this.
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Re: Opinions on ITT 160 please

Postby truthseekers » Thu Oct 28, 2010 6:08 pm

Just thought id would mention I saw a similar effect ona Nvision gen2 device recently - right out on the furthest reaches where there is a mild disortion and focus loss. When your in bright light theres no noise and it doesnt happen but when very dark and the grain gets up its almost like as if the edges are swirling. I totally take on board what everyone on here says and its even got me thinking that perhaps it just is me and a perceptual thing going on with my eyes or brain.

I love this ITT 160 - it rocks. I am thinking of moving up to a PVS14 I am going to ask opinions on a new thread. Basically i want to shoot video or photos through nightvision and the ITT is ok, but 40lp/mm when you have to zoom in slightly isnt going to look as good as pvs14 and there are attachments for cameras for pvs14 and itt160 is just press your camera up against the rubber eye cup. Not so clever.
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Re: Opinions on ITT 160 please

Postby efahrenholz » Fri Oct 29, 2010 2:58 am

Actually, that outer ring distortion I noticed when I used the optics from the ITT Night Quest 150 on a litton m2160 tube. I think it's the optics. It was very pronounced in the dark but harder to see in well lit conditions. Sorta of like it was focussing on 90% of the phosphor screen and the other 10% was wildly distorted and had a very ring like pattern of uniform noise going in a swirl. It should be noted that the litton m2160 has a flat glass input and flat glass output.
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Re: Opinions on ITT 160 please

Postby truthseekers » Fri Oct 29, 2010 12:02 pm

efahrenholz wrote:Actually, that outer ring distortion I noticed when I used the optics from the ITT Night Quest 150 on a litton m2160 tube. I think it's the optics. It was very pronounced in the dark but harder to see in well lit conditions. Sorta of like it was focussing on 90% of the phosphor screen and the other 10% was wildly distorted and had a very ring like pattern of uniform noise going in a swirl. It should be noted that the litton m2160 has a flat glass input and flat glass output.


Ahha, brilliant... so I am not going mad then... you mention litton m2160, is that what is used in the itt160 then, not an ITT tube? I am a little confused now.
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Re: Opinions on ITT 160 please

Postby efahrenholz » Fri Oct 29, 2010 7:30 pm

truthseekers wrote:
efahrenholz wrote:Actually, that outer ring distortion I noticed when I used the optics from the ITT Night Quest 150 on a litton m2160 tube. I think it's the optics. It was very pronounced in the dark but harder to see in well lit conditions. Sorta of like it was focussing on 90% of the phosphor screen and the other 10% was wildly distorted and had a very ring like pattern of uniform noise going in a swirl. It should be noted that the litton m2160 has a flat glass input and flat glass output.


Ahha, brilliant... so I am not going mad then... you mention litton m2160, is that what is used in the itt160 then, not an ITT tube? I am a little confused now.


No the litton m2160 is just the general name we kind of gave the tube in the litton m2160 CCTV intensifier box called the intellivu. I have no idea what the actual part name is for that tube. The actual tube used in the ITT 150 and 160 is a glass input, glass output ITT tube and I believe it isn't used in any other applications besides the nightquest or night mariner bodies--unless someone else here happens to know otherwise.
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