Need help to ID this scope

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Need help to ID this scope

Postby fletcher969 » Tue Aug 28, 2012 12:04 pm

Hi all,

This scope was handed down to me without any documentation or markings on the scope itself. All I do know about it is that it has been painted black, but used to be an olive green color. I've done every imaginable search online, and I haven't found a scope that looks exacly like this one. I don't even know if it works, as it has a 4xAA battery adapter that slips (jams, crams, stuffs with force...and yes, I am inserting it with the key notch aligned correctly...it's just a very tight fit) into the cylinder on the top of the scope, but it won't turn on; however, (I'm an electrical dummy) when I read the voltage output on the adapter, it's only putting out 3.2v (all 4 batteries are putting out approx. 1.7v each). I assume it should be putting out something close to the 4xAA output of 6v since I don't see any electronics in the adapter that might be used to reduce the output. Anyway, my layman suspicions lay with the battery adapter (at least for now), but I don't have any information about the scope, and I have no way to gather any useful information on this scope that might help me get this thing working.

So...can anybody identify this scope so I can locate manuals, specs, parts, etc? It would be very much appreciated, and if anybody has sources where I can find the aforementioned manuals, parts, etc, I'd appreciate that too.

Thanks again.
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Re: Need help to ID this scope

Postby mrf2 » Wed Aug 29, 2012 6:40 pm

Your scope looks like an AN/PVS-2 objective lens and eyepiece attached to a new made body holding an AN/PVS-4 tube (although the body is bit too long looking, but it is hard to say). I've never seen anything like it but the objective and eyepiece are from an AN/PVS-2, no doubt about it. I would also bet that the tube inside is a MX9644, a 2nd gen tube used in the AN/PVS-4. The tube input window is the same size as the tube used in the AN/PVS-2 (25mm) so there would be no issues with the lens. The presence of the gain knob also suggests the MX9644 tube. It looks like a elevation and windage adjustment mechanism was attached to the back of the tube before the eyepiece. This tube takes 3v so your battery adapter is working correctly. This means you will have to move on it more aggressive trouble shooting, i.e. taking the scope apart.

Because it looks like it is based on a PVS-2 and PVS-4 I assume it comes apart in about the same way. To remove the tube I would start with the knurled ring behind the battery compartment but in front of presumed reticle adjustment. Attempt to remove it, in the AN/PVS-4 this ring focus the image tube and holds it in the scope. It should screw right off (the AN/PVS-4 has a external clamp that sets the tube focus and keeps the tube in, it looks like this has no such part, there may be a set screw or similar on your scope, or nothing). If it does not, stop and we'll have to try something else. Once the ring is free you should be able to pull the tube straight out. You will see there are 4 metal contacts at the front of the tube, try to put 3V across them in a dark room and you will confirm if your tube is good or bad. If the tube is good, move on to wiring, you should be able to access most if it once the tube is out.

If you want to try taking the scope apart from the front, the AN/PVS-2 lens will screw out of the front of the scope, but you will not be able to get the tube out that way. There may be three small set screws that hold the lens in, there may not be. There will be a small set screw on the right side (assuming the welded the lens on the same way) that regulates focus on the objective. If all of this fails you can also attempt to detach the eye piece, but I don't see the same ring that the AN/PVS-2 has that unscrews (much like the AN/PVS-4 image intensifier tubes) that allows the eyepiece to be pulled out.

Good luck, let us know what you find! It should be a good scope if you can get it working again!
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Re: Need help to ID this scope

Postby fletcher969 » Thu Aug 30, 2012 1:05 am

mrf2 wrote:Your scope looks like an AN/PVS-2 objective lens and eyepiece attached to a new made body holding an AN/PVS-4 tube (although the body is bit too long looking, but it is hard to say). I've never seen anything like it but the objective and eyepiece are from an AN/PVS-2, no doubt about it. I would also bet that the tube inside is a MX9644, a 2nd gen tube used in the AN/PVS-4. The tube input window is the same size as the tube used in the AN/PVS-2 (25mm) so there would be no issues with the lens. The presence of the gain knob also suggests the MX9644 tube. It looks like a elevation and windage adjustment mechanism was attached to the back of the tube before the eyepiece. This tube takes 3v so your battery adapter is working correctly. This means you will have to move on it more aggressive trouble shooting, i.e. taking the scope apart.


Thanks for the quick rundown how to do a basic disassembly. That gave me the confidence to open it up. You're correct about the objective lens assembly and the eyepiece, retical adjustment, etc...they exactly match that of a PVS-2, but the body is about 55mm x 135mm, and the tube inside it measures very close to 50mm x 135mm which (for comparison) isn't even remotely close to that of my SU-87/PVS-4 scope (another scope I was handed, but which has missing battery caps...damn!), although I suppose that's no indication of the tube contained inside.

In any event, I removed the eyepice assembly, didn't see anything which would hold the tube in place, but neither would it come out of the body. I then removed the objective lens, and that revealed two wires (red & black) coming out two corresponding holes from the objective end of the tube (it would appear it's not a MX9644 tube), then externally through a hole that leads back to the battery/pwr switch housing, so one would have to pull the wires from the tube (sounds very very bad), or unsolder them from the battery/pwr housing, and pull them through that little hole before the tube can be removed, and I can't for the life of me see how one would work those wires back through that hole back to the battery/pwr housing during reassembly given its odd path there (it's not a direct path). Regardless, I then very carefully removed the battery housing that sits on top of the body, and immediately noticed the red & black wires coming from the tube were severed, and there were two corresponding red and black wires coming from the gain/pwr switch electronics which also appeared to be severed. So I trimmed back and touched the corresponding red and black wires coming from the tube directly to the battery pack terminals, and THE TUBE CAME ON! I then put the battery pack inside its housing, trimmed back and connected the other two red and black wired coming from the electronis in the housing to the two coming from the tube while the power switch was on, but but the tube didn't come on. I suspect either the pwr switch and/or gain control is bad (or both), but it could be the wiring, so here's a verbal schematic of what I see inside the housing:

Pwr Switch and gain control both have 3 terminals. On the power switch, two terminals have a red wire connected to it. One red wire connects to the gain control, the other goes to a terminal on the battery pack. The gain control has the aforementioned red wire coming from the power switch, and another red wire which connects to nothing/is severed (supposed to go to the tube?). There is only one black wire inside the battery housing, and it leads back to the second terminal of the battery pack while the other end connects to nothing/is severed (i.e. when I previously connected the two black wires to gether, I was creating a direct connection from the battery pack to the tube). Anyway, I haven't the first clue how this switch/control/tube circuit is designed, and since I have some weird hybrid or prototype scope without a schematic, I could use some suggestions how this is supposed to be wired, or how I might use my multimeter to test the gain control, power switch, or wiring.

Hope my description makes sense. If not, it's quite late, and I can give it another go tomorrow. :-)
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Re: Need help to ID this scope

Postby fletcher969 » Fri Aug 31, 2012 1:23 pm

Ok, let's take this approach. Can anybody explain how to properly connect a two terminal power source, a 3 terminal power switch, and a 3 terminal gain control to a tube that has 2 wires leading off it (+/-)? I'm assuming from what I can see that only 2 terminals have ever been used on the power switch, and the same on the gain control. With that, I'd guess the +pos from the batteries goes to the power switch, then goes to the the gain control, then to the +pos on the tube. The -neg from the batteries bypasses the power and gain control, and goes directly to the -neg on the tube. Can somebody confirm, or correct me?

I would troubleshoot this on my own, but I don't want to inadvertently burn up the tube if I do it wrong.

Much appreciated.
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Re: Need help to ID this scope

Postby NVS500 » Fri Sep 07, 2012 12:14 pm

Fletcher do you have any info on the reticle pattern of this scope?
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Re: Need help to ID this scope

Postby fletcher969 » Sun Sep 09, 2012 8:38 pm

NVS500 wrote:Fletcher do you have any info on the reticle pattern of this scope?


Unfortunately I do not. All I've done to this point is attach the two severed leads coming from the tube directly to the 3v power supply, and determined the tube was working. I didn't think to look through the scope long enough to observe the reticle pattern. Would it benefit me to hook the power directly to the tube again (in a dark room), and see what the reticle pattern is?

What I really want to do at this point is to determine the proper way wire the power switch, gain control, tube, and power supply so I can determine if everything is working, or if I'll need to replace a component or two. I searched online for over a week, but I didn't find anything that seemed useful, and I thought a simple pwr/switch/gain/load circuit would have been an easy find.
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Re: Need help to ID this scope

Postby fletcher969 » Mon Sep 10, 2012 9:18 pm

@NVS500...I hooked the tube direct to the power supply, and checked out the tube's operation. The reticle is a simple black crosshair design that appears to be fixed. There are two knobs near the focus adjustment 'ring' which is near the eye piece I thought would be reticle adjustments (see pics above), but neither one seemed to do anyting with the reticle. The focus works, but the tube seems to be a bit fuzzy and noisy overall. I have no way to control the gain, so I don't know if the image can adjusted to be more clear.

Anyway, that's what the reticle looks like.
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Re: Need help to ID this scope

Postby NVS500 » Wed Sep 12, 2012 7:01 am

"T"-cross or opened cross?
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Re: Need help to ID this scope

Postby fletcher969 » Wed Sep 12, 2012 6:54 pm

NVS500 wrote:"T"-cross or opened cross?


The hairs touch while crossing each other, so I'm assuming that's T... Quite literally like a + but each line extends the full width/height of the visible area. The lines are black, and quite thin also.
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Re: Need help to ID this scope

Postby NVS500 » Fri Sep 14, 2012 9:46 am

It sems me you have NIGHT RAIDER M25-95 by TCI.
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Re: Need help to ID this scope

Postby fletcher969 » Fri Sep 14, 2012 8:30 pm

NVS500 wrote:It sems me you have NIGHT RAIDER M25-95 by TCI.


Man...WHERE did you find that info? If you have ANY links, or if can point me to whatever resource of which you're aware, I'd be most grateful. I've done all sorts of searches (including image searches), and I cannot find anything on the scope you mentioned except that it is "an individual weapons sight for general military and law enforcement....." blah, blah, blah, and in another thread in this forum they mention it is a triple-gen1+ tube made by Philips-USFA. Zero pictures came up on several different searches.

Again, anything you can point me to will be most appreciated.
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Re: Need help to ID this scope

Postby efahrenholz » Wed Sep 19, 2012 1:07 pm

fletcher969 wrote:
NVS500 wrote:It sems me you have NIGHT RAIDER M25-95 by TCI.


Man...WHERE did you find that info? If you have ANY links, or if can point me to whatever resource of which you're aware, I'd be most grateful. I've done all sorts of searches (including image searches), and I cannot find anything on the scope you mentioned except that it is "an individual weapons sight for general military and law enforcement....." blah, blah, blah, and in another thread in this forum they mention it is a triple-gen1+ tube made by Philips-USFA. Zero pictures came up on several different searches.

Again, anything you can point me to will be most appreciated.


The image intensifier tube is a cascade tube, and could be one of many different types. They were produced by Varo and EEV (and maybe others.) The best were the British EEV (English Electric Valve) P8079HP tubes. They typically had a gain of over 100,000x. This makes them comparable to early gen 3 intensifier tubes, for instance the OMNI I and OMNI II era tubes. Of course, weight and dimensions are totally different, and these particular cascade tubes suffer from pincushion distortion.

The actual nomenclature of the tube installed in your particular rifle scope will be determined by removing the tube and inspecting the side of the body for the part number and manufacturer. If it's an American made tube, it doesn't mean it sucks, as they are still *excellent* compared to some generation 2 stuff that's floating around out there.

Cascade tubes are pretty awesome, but they don't produce the same amount of signal contained in the gen 3 and gen 2 tubes. The gain makes them awesome though.
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Re: Need help to ID this scope

Postby fletcher969 » Tue Sep 25, 2012 11:08 am

efahrenholz wrote:
The image intensifier tube is a cascade tube, and could be one of many different types. They were produced by Varo and EEV (and maybe others.) The best were the British EEV (English Electric Valve) P8079HP tubes. They typically had a gain of over 100,000x. This makes them comparable to early gen 3 intensifier tubes, for instance the OMNI I and OMNI II era tubes. Of course, weight and dimensions are totally different, and these particular cascade tubes suffer from pincushion distortion.

The actual nomenclature of the tube installed in your particular rifle scope will be determined by removing the tube and inspecting the side of the body for the part number and manufacturer. If it's an American made tube, it doesn't mean it sucks, as they are still *excellent* compared to some generation 2 stuff that's floating around out there.

Cascade tubes are pretty awesome, but they don't produce the same amount of signal contained in the gen 3 and gen 2 tubes. The gain makes them awesome though.


Many thanks for the information. I may have to bite the bullet, and just remove the tube. Getting those 2 wires coming from the tube worked back through everything to the battery/power housing will be a HUGE pain though. Whoever designed this particular model weren't thinking about ease of repair. Regardless, I won't be doing that until I know how to fix the gain circuit. Without that working, this thing is nothing more than a big, albeit interesting, paperweight.

Thanks again. I'm getting closer with each bit of information.
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Re: Need help to ID this scope

Postby fletcher969 » Thu Oct 04, 2012 6:51 am

NVS500 wrote:It sems me you have NIGHT RAIDER M25-95 by TCI.


Hey, thanks for the info you sent. Unfortunately, it's not the scope you thought it was. Now I understand why you asked about the T reticle. Mine is a classic crosshair reticle, and there are other physical features of the scope itself that don't match up either. Again, thanks for sending the info. Nothing ventured, nothing gained.
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Re: Need help to ID this scope

Postby NVS500 » Thu Oct 04, 2012 12:23 pm

Good luck bro!
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