Gen.3 P tubes are VERY RARE these days.

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Gen.3 P tubes are VERY RARE these days.

Postby supertorque » Thu Aug 11, 2016 1:10 pm

IMG_3944.JPG
Hello everyone. I am new to this forum but I do have some experience with night vision. I have an ATN NVM-14 gen.2 and an ATN PVS-14/6015 gen.4. The last time I made a night vision investment was about 3 years ago and I had no problems finding what I wanted. Today is a completely different story. I decided I wanted to buy another device after I ran into some extra money a few months ago. So, I first tried ATN because they USED to be a leading name in the market and I hadn't been disappointed yet. I wanted to try the new Gen.3 PINNACLE tube with the PVS-14/6015 configuration so I began looking for the best price I could find and bought one thru a reputable dealer online. It was a special order item and was being shipped directly from the manufacturer (ATN). After I received my "new" ATN PVS-14/6015 I immediately noticed the image "flickering" randomly as well as a much louder than usual high pitch noise. I quickly turned it off because for some reason or another I always thought that "flickering" was a sign that the tube was about to die. I was in a dark room when I turned it on so it couldn't have been the bright light cut off unless the circuit board was malfunctioning. Either way it was not normal and very annoying and absolutely noticeable. I was not a happy camper. So, I called ATN and they told me to call who I bought it from because I would have to get an RMA number issued thru them for me. A nice gentleman from ATN corp. said that all I had to do was get the item on the way back to them and they would send a replacement to me. After a little confusing communication I got the RMA and the package was on its way back to where it came from. Now this is where the story goes horribly wrong. I was expecting my replacement and decided to call and see when I could expect to get it. I found myself back on the phone with the gentleman I had originally talked to at ATN corp. He told me that he got it back and had it inspected by his quality control department. They had not found anything wrong with it and it was already on its way back to me. i said "what about the replacement?", he replied "I'm not going to replace it. There is nothing wrong with it". I felt like expressing my feelings but refrained. Thought about it again but did not. Well, I should have because after I got it back I turned it on again, yes in the dark, and it flickered and then cut off. I turned the knob back to the off position then back on again and nothing but a louder than usual high pitch whine. So, i decided to take a peak at the tube. Now keep in mind that all Pinnacle tubes are made by Exelis and come with there own data sheet noting the tubes characteristics. The FOM, Halo, lp/mm resolution, and all that stuff so the tube had to be an Exelis right? Apparently not because the tube was well.. not really sure, the numbers were scratched off as well as the manufacturer. When I say numbers I mean the model numbers, the serial numbers and a few more. It looked like it was stolen or something. You couldn't tell from the outside but inside was the ugly truth that I had been had. So again I sent it back and still refrained from expressing myself with the correct language and have not seen it back yet. That was over three weeks ago.
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Re: Gen.3 P tubes are VERY RARE these days.

Postby supertorque » Mon Aug 15, 2016 1:58 pm

Hello, it's me again. I just wanted to tell the rest of my experience even though it looks like I am the only one reading this thread. But that's alright because some of the most intelligent conversations I have ever had were with myself. So I left off with how it had been three weeks since I sent my ATN unit back to them for the second time but what I didn't mention is that I decided to try another manufacturer. I figured that if I could get a REAL PVS-14/6015 with an actual BRAND NEW generation 3 PINNACLE tube, I could tell ATN to kiss my butt!! So, I did my due diligence and read about how I should beware of fraudulent devices from manufacturers who put old, used tubes in new but poorly made bodies and sell them for a discounted price. I read all about it on TNVC's web site and was convinced that they were good, honest, knowledgeable, understanding people and were there to help assist me avoid scams. Needless to say I purchased another unit for about $3.600. Yes another one. Just to be clear, that's over $7,200 I have spent trying to obtain the elusive NEW Exelis gen.3 PINNACLE tube. I must admit that I am embarrassed to tell you that I had been had a second time. Yes, a second time. That's twice I have ordered what I wanted and got whatever some junk head Ukrainian could throw together in his garage. The data record sheet doesn't even show the same numbers that are on a tube that looks like its been threw a few battles of it's own. I sent it back as well but not before I got the evidence I needed to prove that I was telling the truth. The ugly truth is in the attached picture. In a nutshell I now am over $7,200 poorer and still have no sign of a BRAND NEW as advertised generation 3 Pinnacle night vision device and am beginning to wonder if one actually exists. There should be laws to prevent things like this from happening in this country. This is NOT Russia. This is the U.S.A. A country I love to serve. Someone please respond. Thank you and God bless.
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Re: Gen.3 P tubes are VERY RARE these days.

Postby 45K40 » Wed Aug 17, 2016 9:38 am

Sorry to see you got the shaft from 2 different suppliers. Both tubes are NOT new; they look like pulls from another NVD. ATN is well known for factory seconds quality, just search Google with, "is ATN night vision any good?" 4 out of 5 will say NO. TNVC, who dominate arfcom and have a fan-boy club of loyal followers, is a build-a-bear company. I've heard of plusses and minuses, but all customers swear, "Call them and they will make it right." I don't know if you did, but do that. Keep in mind, any mfr is going to be perturbed if you disassemble their product (might blame you), you're mileage may vary.
Personally, both of the suppliers above are low on my list. Summit Night Vision is a good one; did me right with PVS-14 and L3 tube. Did you get any warranties with either device?

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Re: Gen.3 P tubes are VERY RARE these days.

Postby supertorque » Thu Aug 18, 2016 12:54 pm

Thank you for your response 45K40. I did contact TNVC and they are very friendly and helpful. They provided me with a return label and return authorization number and they did indeed refund my money. The owner (i think his name was Vic) even called me back and left me a message that sounded like he was genuinely concerned about my dissatisfaction. So, that makes me think maybe TNVC is not aware that the devices they are selling are coming in with these used tubes. I know as a business owner that I would never advertise a used product as being new so its hard for me to imagine doing so. I have a good friend who is a Sergeant in the Marine's and had worked in an arms room. He taught me what he knew and showed me what to look for and what he would consider to be too flawed to send a soldier on to the battlefield with. He looked at the unit I had from ATN and laughed. He got a bore light and somehow with the device off he could see scratches on the tube thru the rear lens around the edges. He immediately mumbled something to himself and shook his head, looked at me and said "you paid what for this?".... I guess you live and you learn. And that beats the alternative. Oh, I almost forgot about the warranty question. Of course TNVC refunded my money pretty darn fast so that was not an issue and for the record I don't have any problem with the company or staff because I'm not completely sure who is responsible for the wrong tube and mixed up data record sheet. So, I always give the benefit of doubt in such cases. However, ATN is on my blacklist. Besides the warranty is pointless if they don't honor it. On the page for returns on the website it says you must include valid credit card information to pay for warranty work or something to that effect. I don't remember the exact wording but do remember reading "pay for warranty work". What is that all about? I thought the purpose of a warranty was to assure the customer that if anything went wrong with the product or service it would be fixed or replaced for free for a given amount of time. The only time I expect to pay to have an item fixed is after the warranty expires. One last thing, I still haven't heard back from ATN about when I will get my night vision back and how much it will cost for the warranty work. Thanks again for your insight and God bless America!
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Re: Gen.3 P tubes are VERY RARE these days.

Postby supertorque » Fri Aug 19, 2016 3:42 pm

It's me again. I sort of like having my own personal thread. It's nice and quiet with no one around to judge. But on a more serious note perhaps someone would like to answer this question for me. WHY IS THE NV INDUSTRY SO CORRUPT? Is it just a lack of good tubes out there or are people trying to get rich monopolizing on old, used, dead or dying tubes?.... don't worry, I'll wait
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Re: Gen.3 P tubes are VERY RARE these days.

Postby marc_pril » Tue Aug 23, 2016 1:07 am

With nightvision the old saying ignorance is bliss does not hold true.

That is the thing with nv stuff a lot of people have no clue and part with their hard earned cash. Most would not have noticed and would have been perfectly happy with the unit. This however is not good practice.

You should get what you paid for. Glad you got things worked out with TNVC
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Re: Gen.3 P tubes are VERY RARE these days.

Postby 45K40 » Tue Aug 23, 2016 6:44 am

supertorque,

I agree with Marc, there are some people that don't know much about NV; just watch action-TV or the movies to see. Their impression of NVDs are rarely portrayed correctly, such as red or green light being emitted from the objective (front) lens. Or the Infra-Red scope that displays in red (James Bond). Of course there are devices that output in red, such as TOW/Dragon/Bradley ISU night sights that do not have a CRT (thermal imagers), but these are not the ones portrayed. The sad thing is the producers use so-called "Military Advisors"!
A NV sales company would know better; ignorance would indicate poor QA, lack of concern for the customer or the company's reputation, and word-of-mouth gets around fast on the internet. TNVC prides itself on reputation, just visit arfcom's NV forum to see how well they defend their name.
These lame companies pay Google to keep the search results at the top of the page to make it look like they are Number 1. My Google-fu is to always research before diving in. Go to Google and type in "Is (product or company) any good?" Ignore the top 3 or 4 results and totally ignore the site's own feedback. Find un-biased results from actual users, such as the ones here.
Good luck with ATN,

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Re: Gen.3 P tubes are VERY RARE these days.

Postby supertorque » Wed Aug 24, 2016 12:44 pm

Thank you both for you feedback. I spoke to ATN on the phone this past Monday and was told they were replacing the tube in my NVD and that it would ship back to me sometime this week. I sure hope they put a brand new generation 3 Pinnacle tube as advertised. I will be sure to let you guys know what happens.
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Re: Gen.3 P tubes are VERY RARE these days.

Postby supertorque » Tue Sep 06, 2016 8:18 am

Hey everyone, its me again. It appears that ATN did the right thing and replaced my tube with a new one. Just to be sure does anyone know if an EXELIS NV5049B-X7C tube is indeed a GEN.3 Pinnacle?
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Re: Gen.3 P tubes are VERY RARE these days.

Postby supertorque » Tue Sep 13, 2016 6:16 am

Hello again. I am hoping to bring a conclusion to this mess I have found myself into but I need to know if anyone can identify this tube first. ATN has replaced my old burned out tube they tried to get away with for another tube that is seemingly new but I have no way to confirm what the heck it is. I would offer some more details but it didn't come with a data sheet which is why I am suspicious. PLEASE HELP ME! I am desperate and this forum is my only hope. Why is it so hard to find accurate information on these freaking things? Here is another picture of the mystery tube.
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Re: Gen.3 P tubes are VERY RARE these days.

Postby 45K40 » Wed Sep 14, 2016 8:46 am

supertorque,

You have a new version of the Pinnacle. This one has an optical port (blue area at 6 o'clock) to perform adjustments vs. potentiometers on older series. If it performs OK, you should be good. Some dealers/mfrs will charge you for a data sheet due to people scanning and manipulating digits, I don't know if TNVC will provide a sheet or not. Summit NV gave me one for mine,

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Re: Gen.3 P tubes are VERY RARE these days.

Postby 45K40 » Wed Sep 14, 2016 8:50 am

Post update:

I meant to say ATN, not TNVC. By the way, what did TNVC do to make good?
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Re: Gen.3 P tubes are VERY RARE these days.

Postby supertorque » Wed Sep 14, 2016 11:33 am

TNVC promptly refunded my money and they were a lot friendlier to deal with. I still kind of think they tried to pull a fast one on me but at least they were polite about it.
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Re: Gen.3 P tubes are VERY RARE these days.

Postby tangloppen » Sun Sep 18, 2016 10:15 am

To my understanding, the optical port is only in use with ITT/Harris Everest tubes.
newb.
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Re: Gen.3 P tubes are VERY RARE these days.

Postby supertorque » Fri Sep 23, 2016 1:24 pm

Is it possible for me to interface with this "optical port"? My tube seems a little bright and I would like to be able to adjust the gain down somehow. Or, do I need a specific proprietary plug and computer software in order to adjust? I ask because I really do not want to send my unit back to ATN. I really appreciate all the information from you guys. Have a good weekend!

Best regards,
Superdork
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