Call from Homeland Security...

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Re: Call from Homeland Security...

Postby Dino1130 » Mon Oct 10, 2011 7:05 pm

:D
Last edited by Dino1130 on Thu Oct 13, 2011 1:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
I said I never had much use for one. Never said I didn’t know how to use it.
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Re: Call from Homeland Security...

Postby hugh » Mon Oct 10, 2011 8:39 pm

Dino, I would tend to agree with you as far as a civilian in possession of a AN/P*Q-* laser aiming device. However I would think they could only fine the government agency that sold the civilian the laser for violating the variance and not the individual. There may be one exception that I can think of, that is if they could prove that the individual new the FDA rules and the variance and choose to ignore it. Again after doing some research this is just my opinion and a court of law may see it different.
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Re: Call from Homeland Security...

Postby efahrenholz » Mon Oct 10, 2011 8:57 pm

This thread is getting crazy now.

I sincerely appreciated the quote from the gentleman stating that attempting to hold on to something you paid for, despite a mix up of legalities, is being un-American. That insults the piss out of me. This generation of people and those still to come is littered with liars and scammers using the Internet as a tool to take from others. Paranoia is normal, and calling even me un-American, a united states veteran, for assuming that this jerk-off is possibly scamming people--well that is going too far.

He needs to just go ahead and do his job, go find these 'un-american' thieves and stop speaking on forums. It's not anyone's place as a figure of law enforcement to speak freely about their opinions of anyone. Especially when the people being spoken to could be in possession of stolen equipment that they didn't know was stolen.

I appologize for getting on my soapbox but honestly the maturity level drops when we have ignorant law enforcement agents practically calling American citizens un-American.
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Re: Call from Homeland Security...

Postby Dino1130 » Tue Oct 11, 2011 7:20 am

:D
Last edited by Dino1130 on Thu Oct 13, 2011 1:16 pm, edited 3 times in total.
I said I never had much use for one. Never said I didn’t know how to use it.
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Re: Call from Homeland Security...

Postby hugh » Tue Oct 11, 2011 7:45 am

Dino, good luck and thanks for being the test case. :?
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Re: Call from Homeland Security...

Postby Dino1130 » Tue Oct 11, 2011 7:56 am

:D
Last edited by Dino1130 on Thu Oct 13, 2011 1:16 pm, edited 3 times in total.
I said I never had much use for one. Never said I didn’t know how to use it.
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Posts: 1300
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Location: USA

Re: Call from Homeland Security...

Postby cj7hawk » Tue Oct 11, 2011 8:05 am

Hope it all goes well :) Let us all know the outcome.

David.
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Re: Call from Homeland Security...

Postby flex297 » Wed Oct 12, 2011 1:57 am

Dino, keeping my fingers crossed for you..
Any color you like...
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Re: Call from Homeland Security...

Postby marc_pril » Wed Oct 12, 2011 5:02 am

Hopeing for the best. But I'm shure you are in your right!

Cheers,

Marc
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Re: Call from Homeland Security...

Postby cj7hawk » Wed Oct 12, 2011 7:27 am

marc_pril wrote:Hopeing for the best. But I'm shure you are in your right!

Cheers,

Marc


+1

Oh yeah, we all KNOW you're in the right, but sometimes the government will fight even if they are in the wrong.

David
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Re: Call from Homeland Security...

Postby Dino1130 » Wed Oct 12, 2011 8:33 pm

:D
Last edited by Dino1130 on Thu Oct 13, 2011 1:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
I said I never had much use for one. Never said I didn’t know how to use it.
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Posts: 1300
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Location: USA

Re: Call from Homeland Security...

Postby Dino1130 » Thu Oct 13, 2011 8:04 am

My eyes have been opened to what is truly going on here. It is a laser roundup whether stolen or not. They got the bases well covered. I have read so many FDA laser regulations my eyes hurt. Truly the only way I know to do this is to build it yourself. Buy the class I and put your own diode in it. As long as you don't sell it I see nothing they can do.

It may not be against the law to own but every conceivable way I have found to get one hits a regulation snag that allows them to take it. Maybe import a unit from another Country that has had its diode removed. Then you did not import any laser... Don't know but make no mistake guys, stolen or not they will take them and destroy them. That is what they want. Every single one of these lasers gone. They will never give Crybaby's laser back even though it is not stolen. They never planned to from the beginning. Stolen or not will make no difference and they will take it. I bet they were laughing while we argued the stolen or not part of this. Just a distraction because it never mattered at all. :roll:

This is a direct quote from the Agent :


"I am still searching for the mythical non-stolen lasers. If you own one please speak up in this forum.Fear not, I won't take your lasers. I merely want to get an idea of how many there are so that I can adjust my figures accordingly. Right now I'm stating that 99.9% of lasers on the market are stolen. Your assistance will help adjust that figure and provide credibility as so many people do not believe in the number. To qualify as having a non-stolen laser you must show me the documentation from DRMO or a LE agency that I mentioned above."


Michael, that is a direct lie to the members of this forum. Crybaby's laser was never stolen from anyone. If I import one they can still do an end run and take it because it was not allowed to be imported. These guys are smart and knew all along this is a straight up search and destroy mission. I won't speak to people who will lie to their own fellow US citizens. :evil:

Getting back stolen gear from our troops is a great and noble thing that I fully support. This is about much more than that. They WILL take them all and destroy them. Was the plan right from the beginning and until I really read this whole thing in real depth I thought the issue was about stolen or not.

It never was guys. The issue is if you got one they will take it and destroy it. That was the "secret move" they talked about at the ARF. My suggestion is if you have one hand it over. Don't lie to them. For the rest I suggest we never post anymore photos or talk about these lasers again. I don't want any members falsely accused of owning one of these devices. I have nothing more to say and am done with the issue. These guys were sharp and did their homework. I will give them that. :evil:

Un-American and Shame on me ?? Let us just say that I am ashamed to be an American today. :cry:
I said I never had much use for one. Never said I didn’t know how to use it.
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Re: Call from Homeland Security...

Postby cj7hawk » Fri Oct 14, 2011 6:32 am

:(

I am sorry to hear. That's about it then. I think if this is the situation, we should make it clear to everyone to ensure that people don't think that just because they buy a laser legitimately, that they can keep it.

They do that kind of stuff here in Australia and they pick on something and go around collecting it and destroy it, usually firearms... And they have regular amnesties to allow people to surrender such items, but they also compensate the owner to the full value of the item. They call them "Buybacks". Pretty much an extension of eminent domain.

Perhaps the US government needs to take a close look at how Australia does it and do the same?

And guys? We owe it to our fellow NV enthusiasts. If they ask about these lasers, make sure they understand the situation. Even thinking about a Class III laser is going to get you into trouble. I hope no one else makes the mistake of buying one and asking questions... I hate to see innocent people get caught out like that.

David.
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Re: Call from Homeland Security...

Postby hugh » Fri Oct 14, 2011 8:19 am

Dino, 2 thoughts

1-It would appear to me that government would have to prove that the unit was stolen before they could take it. The burden of proof is on them, not you.

2- Or they could confiscate it under some forum of eminent domain in which case you should get "just compensation" according to the 5th amendment.

Of course both paths take time and money and lawyers, and in the end, you would be very lucky to win. and as you said and I would agree,"Un-American and Shame on me ?? Let us just say that I am ashamed to be an American today. :cry:". Actually I suspect you have nothing to be ashamed of other than your fellow countrymen.
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Re: Call from Homeland Security...

Postby Michael » Fri Oct 14, 2011 9:02 am

This is a rather sad turn of events. I have heard from the agent in question since I last posted and he was waiting for directives from his superiors as to what they are allowed to discuss and post in addition to what has already been said. I am still hopeful that someone from the agency will come in with an official stance.

Dino and crye-baby, I am sorry about what has happened. Neither one of you did anything wrong (aside from being unknowingly caught up in the "grey" area of legalese), and to have lost your money and to be so disillusioned in the process is completely screwed up.

All I can say is, that until there is a clear cut legal precedent on what your rights are on acquiring an aftermarket Class IIIb laser, don't purchase one, don't discuss it on the forum, and don't ask questions about them (that is added to the forum rules henceforth and will not be allowed).

For now, I will leave this thread open for any additional information by either the agents or anyone with an actual authority on the subject, or for those who might be thinking about purchasing one, but otherwise, I am requiring everyone to heed the above rule.
Michael
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