Call from Homeland Security...

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Re: Call from Homeland Security...

Postby Michael » Fri Oct 14, 2011 11:13 am

Some additional information.

I have just had a rather long and informative conversation with Agent Manson.

1. To address the crye-baby's situation, since that is what started this thread. His particular unit has been proven to have been stolen from the government (I was provided documentation to support this claim to my complete satisfaction). Those responsible for the theft have been identified, admitted their guilt, and are in the process of being prosecuted. The agents are doing what they can to recover the funds spent by crye-baby (I was told that they have had 90+ percent success so far), so let us hope that he will recover his hard earned money.

2. The agency's position on these products is rather simple. Forget the FDA regs (more on that below), forget the fact that there are no regulations on a civilian owning one or re-selling it. It is specifically enforced that these units can be sold to Government or Law Enforcement agency only (no individual soldiers or officers). The said agency can not surplus, resell, or do anything else with these units except either destroy or return them to the manufacturer at the end of their useful life (I was told that prior to the purchase, the agency is required to acknowledge and agree to these requirements). Therefore, any units that have somehow left Government or LE control (whether by theft, mistake, negligence, etc.), have done so illegally. They remain Government property and are considered to be stolen and subject to seizure. That's it. We can agree or disagree with it, but that's the way it is.

3. FDA regs: could they come up with anything more vague and open to interpretation if they tried to do so on purpose? Furthermore, it leaves a whole lot of grey area since they only address the manufacturer's responsibility. However, I am told that FDA has created a team who is supposed to address these issues and release a more concise and clear-cut ruling. More on that when I have more information.

4. Where does it leave those who want to acquire a IIIb laser? Simple, don't do it. It can bring a lot more headache then it is worth, and if it turns out that you have read any of this (or the thread on AR15) prior to doing so, you could not only loose the item and money, but be charged with trafficking in stolen government property. If you absolutely have to have an IR laser (and I don't see any reason why you would not want to have one for all the adventages it can offer to night vision user), get a Class I and skip all of the issues/problems.
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Re: Call from Homeland Security...

Postby crye-baby » Fri Oct 14, 2011 11:50 am

Thanks Michael, & everyone else. The support was more than I ever expected :wink: . I need to clear up some facts I have posted eariler. I have spoken to Mr. Manson & he has given me the whole story behind the unit I purchased. When Agent Manson first contacted me I was a bit confused to say the least. Let me start off with the thought that my unit was not stolen. Mr. Manson gave me a scenario that I had mistakenly taken to be the one I was in. That was my fault, & I apologize for the mixed facts. I will correct that. I went ahead & sent my serial # in to have it checked out. Turns out it was stolen along with many others sold by this guy. After getting that info back I shiped the unit to Mr. Manson. Save yourself Alot of Trouble & Money, Dont Buy One !!! Maybe one day a Mfg. will come out with one equiped with the ir laser & illuninator in class 1 form...
Last edited by crye-baby on Sat Oct 15, 2011 11:48 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Call from Homeland Security...

Postby Dino1130 » Fri Oct 14, 2011 12:25 pm

Michael, Great post and thank you for clearing it up. I really wish they would have just said from the beginning what you said in paragraph two. This is what I learned as well. Through lots of reading and phone calls. I slowly found out they all will be confiscated because there is no legal way that you could possibly have one that does not violate the law. The agents knew this from the beginning and were using trickery to gets guys to speak up about lasers they may or may not own. Using that trickery angered many and in truth was never necessary.

Hearing the truth is always refreshing and now we know to avoid these lasers at all cost. Crybaby... Sorry, and I hope these guys work as hard to get your funds back as they do to track these scopes down. :D

ETA : I spoke with these guys and they seem to me to be after just the stolen gear. That I am fine with and support. I have been critical of them so nobody is unfairly targeted. Stolen gear from our own troops I fully support. I just don't want a witch hunt over some innocent guys who only want to hunt with decent gear. The agent spoke with me and I feel he is genuine. His goal is to get stolen gear. Problem is that unless you have a DRMO receipt you can't win.If DRMO messed up and you got the paperwork you are golden. Still, you may have FDA issues.

They are not the devil and seem like reasonable guys as far as I can tell. If the goal is to get to the bottom of guys stealing from our troops they have my full support. What I won't do is help them hurt the innocent. The dilemma ?? To get at the thieves sometimes it WILL hurt the innocent... That kills me. :(
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Re: Call from Homeland Security...

Postby crye-baby » Sat Oct 15, 2011 12:03 pm

PayPal closed the case on me, finding for the seller :shock: I appealed, They colsed it again today. Stated that I opened the case 3 months after the auction ended WTF!! So this guy sells me a stolen unit on ebay, I get a call, I return it & I get Screwed. Thats not right. Honestly, A huge paper trail is not enough proof to them. I think its called Customer No Service, Big THANKS PAYPAL - Help a guy out here On the plus side, Mr. Manson is true to his word & helping me in this fight. He should have way more pull than I do :wink:
Last edited by crye-baby on Fri Oct 28, 2011 6:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Call from Homeland Security...

Postby efahrenholz » Sat Oct 15, 2011 9:19 pm

crye-baby wrote:PayPal closed the case on me, finding for the seller :shock: I appealed, They colsed it again today. Stated that I opened the case 3 months after the auction ended WTF!! So this guy sells me a stolen unit on ebay, I get a call, I return it & I get Screwed. Honestly, A huge paper trail is not enough proof to them. All they care about is keepin the money comming in. I think its called Customer No Service, Big BIG THANKS PAYPAL On the plus side, Mr. Manson is helping me in this fight. He should have way more pull than I do :wink:


Paypal isn't going to help you out. I coulda told you that. You will have to take the gentleman to court in order to recover your funds. Any small claims will handle this.
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Re: Call from Homeland Security...

Postby crye-baby » Mon Oct 17, 2011 7:32 am

Yeah I should have known PP would not be the greatest help. I figured that they could at least put a hold on my money if the seller still had it in his account (he made quite a bit in total so it was a long shot at the least). I have been told not to give up hope just yet, so right now Im just gonna see how it all pans out & hope for the best. It kills me that this guy still has my funds after all this but, that may change here soon.
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